Why Derrick Rose Should Not Win the NBA MVP
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First let me state, I don't like or dislike Derrick Rose...I can't stand Lebron James. But I acknowledge both are great players. Second, I do dislike Homers...
Derrick Rose is one of the top offensive performers in the NBA. He is an All-star, but is not an MVP. Let me be the first to burst many Chicago fans bubble since basketball "experts" won't. Derrick Rose in the world of being an MVP is a one dimensional player. He is Allen Iverson. Except when Allen Iverson won the MVP and he led the league in scoring AND steals. Derrick leads in nothing.
Like Iverson, Rose is great at scoring, but a terrible shooter. So much so, he hurts his team. Who can forget the Lakers-Celtics finals when Kobe and the other lakers laid 10' off of Rajon Rondo when he was on the perimeter? It's pretty widely accepted Rondo cannot shoot outside and warrants being laid off 10'. So is Derrick Rose a worse shooter than Rondo outside of the key???
In the last 14 games (the last 2.5 months not much better) ...
-- Rondo hit 38% of his outside shots...
-- Rose...35%. 60-168 shots!
*From the three point line...18% (13-70).
Teams have got to figure out Derrick Rose cannot shoot outside and they need to pack the lane on him.
In my opinion MVP's excel in several categories, Rose can drive...he plays adequate defense, not great. The Bulls team defense saves him.
As for assists, that's about the only category Derrick is okay at as he ranks 10th in point guards in assists. Derrick Rose with his talent should be averaging 20 points and 10 assist a game like the Chris Paul's, Kevin Johnson's and Oscar Robinson's before him. He's an elite scorer, not an elite point guard.
Chicago fans, Derrick Rose fans...one simple question you have to ask yourself. What is Derrick Rose exceptional at other than driving to the basket?
Is Derrick Rose, Allen Iverson?
Derrick Rose is a special offensive player, and I think I may have seen his best game as a pro the other night when I saw him score 42pts while only having one turnover. But even that has to be put in perspective.
Rose is the first guard of this talent to be considered an MVP since Allen Iverson. All the Chicago "Fans" went crazy when he scored 42 points and they continued the MVP chants.
This was Rose's first game over 40 points...during his MVP season Allen Iverson scored over 40 points 16 times, over 50 twice! In those playoffs he scored over 40 six times and 50 twice! Perspective.
That's Amare'
This is probably my favorite reason why Derrick Rose doesn't not deserve to be called MVP. I have several Chicago friends that just HAMMERED me when I talked about Amare' as an MVP candidate in January. They said, and I quote:
"but Amare is just being Amare; he's just a monster PF scoring machine and not half the defender he could "
"he can't play defense and he's just a locomotive scoring machine not at all defense minded"
"Amare is Amare; crappy defense and a big brute who scores with his elbows;"
Didn't they just describe Derrick Rose also in each of those statements? Here is more...it is SCARY how much these are the same players, just different size.
In the last two months...voters don't remember the first two months...comparative pg vs pf categories: scoring/ blks vs stls / rebs vs ast....
Amare 25pts / 2.1 blk / 8 reb / 50% shooting
Rose 26pts / .9 stl / 8ast. / 44% shooting / 3pt 23%
(Rose shoots most of his shots in the lane as well)
So if Amare' isn't MVP...why is Rose?
Rose Colored Glasses
Chicago Bulls fan are fairly certain they don't play basketball outside of Chicago. But if they would take a step back they would see why Derrick Rose is an excellent al-lstar player, just not an option for MVP this year.
The Chicago Bulls are great this year because...
- Coach Tom Thibodeau.
- Team Defense. (see reason # 1) Last year the Bulls scored 97.5 a game and held opponents to 99.1. This year...Bulls score 98.0 a game and holding opponents to 92.3...Derrick Rose is not the reason they are holding offenses to 7 less points a game.
- The Bulls are 5 positions higher in scoring, 11 spots higher on defense. Do the math.
- There are more bad teams in the NBA. Chicago plays in the worst division in the league, while Miami plays in one of the best. Chicago has played 11 games against the patsies of the Central while Miami has played...5.
- Derrick Rose. Without Rose as with most teams that lose their best players, become very average if not worse.
But that just isn't enough to give Rose the MVP.
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Who Will Win the MVP?
In the ESPN Player Efficiency Rating chart Lebron was the # 1 player on that chart. Followed by Dwight Howard, Dwayne Wade, Chris Paul and Kobe Bryant. Works for me. Derrick Rose comes in at # 13.
It is my belief that MVP's should excel in several categories, at least 3 categories. In my opinion, Derrick Rose excels in one category. Scoring. So this years MVP comes down to two players, Dwight Howard or Lebron James. Here are their stats over the last two months,
1. Lebron James: 28pts / 1.8 stl / 7ast / 8.6 rebs / 53% shooting
2. Dwight Howard: 26pts / 1.3 stl / 2 blks / 14.8 rebs
Chris Paul is exceptional in several categories, including scoring, passing the ball, steals and shooting. Clearly, Derrick Rose isn't even the best point guard, so how can he be the NBA MVP? Derrick Rose is a great player, he is just not the best player in the NBA.
On a side note for those that use the James has Bosh and Wade argument. I would suggest that Rose, Boozer, Noah and Deng are better than the big three or at least equal to them. But for a look back at history, the 1997-1998 MVP's stats look a lot like Lebrons....actually, not as good.
Michael Jordan- 28.7 pts / 1.7 stl / 3.5 ast. / 5.8 rebs / .78% ft / 23% 3pt /46%fg
* Toni Kukoc / Dennis Rodman (HoF candidate) / Pippen
Game over...Personally I think Dwight Howard deserves MVP, but it will the 2010-2011 NBA MVP....will be Lebron James
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So the question no Chicago fan will answer is, what is Derrick Rose exceptional at besides driving to the basket? I didn't say defense was the end all...but if you look at the top steals in the league 5 out of 6 are point guards and none are Derrick Rose.
As for 20-10..are you really saying Derrick can't hoist up 5 less shots and dish the ball to get 2-3 assists? Kevin Johnson did...and he's no Derrick Rose, right?
Steve Nashed shot over 50%fg/43% 3-pt & 94% from the line, led the league in assists and averaged 18pts a game. He was exceptional at a lot...no defense wasn't one of them.
"are you really saying Derrick can't hoist up 5 less shots and dish the ball to get 2-3 assists?"
Probably, but so what? James could settle for 15 PPG and dish out 15 assists. Plenty of players could take fewer shots. Doesn't mean they should.
As for Nash, he was a tremendous shooter and a good passer in mid-80's type offense with a slew of finishers.
Incidentally, Rose shoots better from 3 than James, Bryant, Durant, and Deron Williams, and better from the foul line than James, Bryant and Carmelo Anthony. He also has more blocks than Blake Griffin. Rose can do plenty of things.
Again...what is Rose exceptional at? Why do Chicago fans dodge that question? You throw in Williams, Durant, Melo and Griffin, so what? You just listed players that are not in the MVP discussion, other than of course James who is a better shooter, defender, rebounder and passer. Plus he excels in most those categories.
Nash "was" a tremdous shooter? Mkay. So shooting 52% from the field, 40% from three (43% over past three months) and over .90% from the line is not good shooting in your world? Good lord Rose is .43%, .32% and 85% over the same period, and he's an MVP?
Rose is average (or below) at everything but scoring. Saying he shoots the three better than James because Rose shoots is not a bonus.
James is not a better shooter than Rose. Unless you're basing that on FG percentage. That standard would make Dwight Howard one of the best shooters in NBA history though. And I'd hope James, at six inches taller, is the better rebounder.
All of that is inconsequential anyway. MVP is about what type of season players are having and how they impact their team's performance, not a ranking of how good they are by category.
As for Nash, we were talking about his MVP seasons, not this season in which he has no prayer at the award. Not sure why you're so confused about that.
Your last comment is preposterous, with all due respect. I'd suggest watching Rose play.
Any more excuses? LBJ is too tall...so he should get more rebounds. Okay. So what would be your excuse as to why LBJ has more assists in the last 20 games than Derrick Rose? To tall? How is LBJ less than 1 ast. per game from Derrick Rose for the season?
In true Shooting Percentage LBJ is at .58% (your boy Dwight .60 btw), Rose .54% (my boy Nash .64%...must be the height Nash has), while Paul is at .61% and Deron is at .59%. Yes...tell us all that Derrick Rose is a better shooter.
Preposterous? Really?
POINT GUARD CATEGORIES (plus rebounds for you),
ROSE:
Scoring...above average.
FG%- .44 (Below avg for his position)
3-Pt- .36 (average, but he is at like 32% in last 20)
FT- .83 (average, 16th in Point Guards)
Reb. 4.4 (Nash averages 3.6 lol...you make the call)
Ast. 8.1 (and falling. LBJ averages 7.7 and is 13th in the league...Rose is 10th in the league.) Average.
Stl.- 1.0 (21st in Point Guards!) Below average.
FYI, as for Nash he is close to his MVP type numbers, but on a losing team he'll never get considered.
Yes, James being 6 inches taller than Rose is an "excuse". I think Rose should be ashamed he doesn't average more rebounds than Wilt. That extra foot Wilt had is no excuse.
BTW, why narrow the stats to the last 20 games? Is it because Rose is averaging more assists for the season? And why the snarky comparisons with James? The guy is probably the most gifted player in history. Might as well just hand him the award and stop mentioning anyone else in contention.
Also, why the silly comment about Nash? I'm going to go on a limb and suggest height has more to do with rebounding than jump shooting.
*
"FYI, as for Nash he is close to his MVP type numbers, but on a losing team he'll never get considered."
FYI, there's a reason for that. They don't give out MVP's primarily on numbers. You have to help your team win, and Nash can't do that this year. Which is also why you having Stoudamire 4th is laughable. He doesn't defend, is a terrible rebounder for someone with his size, strength and athleticism, and his team is 6-12 over their last 18.
Nice play not acknowledging how average Rose is in other categories. I would too. The point about LBJ height is that all things are relative. In comparison with other point guards Derrick Rose gets less than one rebound a game more than Steve Nash and that's an important stat to you why?
Narrowing it to 20 games is kinda fair for a couple reasons, what have you done for me lately & James learning a new system.
BTW for a full season his stats still don't compare to LBJ's.
Steve Nash makes his teammates better...LBJ the same...not Derrick Rose. He can cut like a knife into defenses, if he wouldn't shoot 20 times a game he could make the game easier for all involved. Case in point...their last win against a good NO team in NO, he shot 15 times, their last loss he shot 27 times.
Lastly and to drive the point home, the Bulls scored 97.5 a game last year and held opponents to 99.1.
This year...Bulls score 98.0 a game and holding opponents to 92.3...that's the tale of the tape.
JR "Which is also why you having Stoudamire 4th is laughable. He doesn't defend, is a terrible rebounder for someone with his size, strength and athleticism, and his team is 6-12 over their last 18."
Assuming you know basketball you have a basic understanding that when a guy plays out of position it becomes a problem. Amare' is a PF...not a center. There is a reason why 4 out of the top 5 rebounders in the league are PF's. He is playing bigger guys every night. He has career highs in points, 2nd in the league and blocks 2.2 4th in the league.
But more than that NY won 29 games last year without him...the have now won 27 games at the halfway point and are respectable.
The fact that Derrick Rose plays up to the best teams in the league makes him an MVP. He has won without his two best players several times this season. LBJ is without a doubt the most gifted player that the league has ever seen. But he went from a team that had an entire roster customized to fit HIS skills to a team that does the same along with ANOTHER top 5 player in the league and one of the best scoring power forwards in the league. Think about it this way: switch Lebron and Rose's teams and they would still have the same records in my opinion. You cannot compare two players with completely different team styles, positions, and abilities. If Rose had a Mike Miller Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh on his team he would be leading the league in assists and have more rebounds to go with it. The Bulls' second scoring option is a back to the basket type center which takes away from assists due to Boozer backing down into his shots. Team Lebron with Boozer and Lebron's rebounds and assists go down. Numbers are just way they are, things for numbers people to gawk at! Rose has taken over more games this year than Lebron! Teams can't only focus on Lebron when he is in the backcourt nor frontcourt anymore. The reason why Rose's numbers have been going down as of late is due to the fact that teams now know that he is the best SCORING (not shooting) PG in the league, and are forced to double team him. As he better learns to face doubles, his assists will shoot back up.
D-ROSE FOR MVP.
Sorry to but into this argument, but I'm going to have to side with AzDubster in this argument. James deserves MVP over Rose. The only other person I'd consider would be Howard..but his stats are worse than previous years in which he didn't get voted MVP, so I doubt he'll win it this year.
You can't use size as an excuse! Lebron gets more rebounds because he's a better rebounder than Rose. Wilt Chamberlain is considered one of the best rebounders ever--I'm sure many of his rebounds came because he was bigger than the people he played against. That shouldn't count against him.
Statistics-wise, Lebron is clearly the best player. Lebron has a higher FG%, more PPG, more RPG, and only 0.9 less APG than Rose. I guarantee Lebron would have more assists if he played point guard every trip up the floor like Rose. And his 3-point percentage is only slightly worse than Rose's (34.5% to 35.5%). Maybe Lebron should deserve more credit because he's putting up those amazing numbers, despite having to play with Wade and Bosh. I understand that the MVP award is partially decided by how the player impacts his team. Well, Lebron has the highers win per replacement in the league. Although this is another statistic, it's widely accepted as the best representation for how important a player is to his team. Also, Lebron shouldn't be discounted for playing with other stars. MVP goes to a player on one of the top teams. All the top teams are filled with stars. Nobody from the Lakers, Celtics, Magic, Mavericks, or Spurs would be eligible for MVP because they play with stars. It's unfortunate that Rose hasn't had Boozer and Noah healthy, but I think that's the only reason he's in the running for MVP. As was mentioned earlier, Chicago's improved defense is the real reason they have such a good record...watch Chicago play.
Lebron and Rose are two of my favorite players in the game, but it simply wouldn't make any sense to give the award to Rose over Lebron at this point.
RACQUET you're dead on. I have 8 Bulls fans that I have been talking to about this for the past few weeks, which prompted the hub.
RACQ "I understand that the MVP award is partially decided by how the player impacts his team."
Look at what happened to Cleveland when he left! Miami won 47 games last year, they are at 41 with a horrible start right now.
RACQ "Also, Lebron shouldn't be discounted for playing with other stars."
Last I heard Jordan had Pippen, Rodman, Grant and BJ Armstrong...all all-stars. I would suggest that the Chicago fans take a look at MJ's final MVP in '97-'98...his stats are the same as than Lebron James.
Game over.
* JR thanks for the correction (number of games) but the point remains the same.
TIMMY...you can't complain about Rose not having his two best players and then tell us if he had Mike Miller he would lead the league in assists. Miller has only played in 22 games. Which brings me to the second point that Boozer has played in 35 games with Rose.
Next you cannot no matter how hard you wish to try ignore the defense. They are 7 points better than last year and they are scoring more points. The defensive improvement is not because of Derrick Rose.
Lastly, during Iverson's MVP year he led the league in scoring and steals. He scored over 40 points 16 times! Rose just had his first. That's the best thing Rose does is score.
Derrick Rose is a great all-star....
JR 15 months ago
MVP isn't based on ESPN's player efficiency ratings.
"If he was an elite point guard he would be averaging 20 points and 10 assist a game."
No player in the league is averaging 20/10. Not James, Wade, Bryant, or any point guard. This is a silly comment.
And if defense were a main factor in MVP voting, Steve Nash and Magic Johnson wouldn't have 5 trophies between them.